Germany wakes up to the obesity problem

The German government has a new health initiative to address the rising rate of health concerns associated with obesity here. According to the government statistics cited in this article "two-thirds of all German men between 18 and 80 are obese and almost half of all women have a weight problem". According to this article, just like other places in the world, this problem is attributed to societal concerns, poor nutritional choices, lack of exercise, and infrastructural problems.

The government plans to spend 30 millions Euros ($46.7 million dollars) over the next 12 years to address this problem.

You can read more here:
Germany Wakes up to Obesity - Dr. Sharma

Here's a copy of the government's initiative: Bundesregierung gegen Adipositas (PDF)

I can only really speak about Munich but I was only saying to my mate the other day that I hardly ever see any fat women here - am I blind or is this article about the rest of Germany!

Me having always had a weight problem find it difficult to diet here - they just don't seem to have all the stuff I can get in the UK when I'm on a weight loss drive.

Strike another one off the list of German cultural smugness.

Widespread poverty, unemployment, homelessness and drugs are right behind it as the funds to bribe and placate the populace continue to run dry.

... and how about that minimum wage? Oh, yeah, Germany doesn't have one

Really shocking to me seen as to how most all of the Germans I know eat really healthy except for the ones that have access to the American posts/bases. I never really thought other countries besides America had a HUGE problem with obesity. I never really noticed any huge Germans when I come out to visit, but I don't live there so I guess I haven't really been able to see a problem. With me recently turning into a health nut, I of course see this as a good idea!

How many are on the "smoke yourself thin" diet?

I'll uncharacteristically go </sarcasm> for a minute and say that I've observed that Germany is on the same path as other western countries in which fitness is an increasingly class/educational thing.

I'm always amazed that most amazingly put-together German professional women in my town show up for work in frumpy pants suits and sensible shoes, whilst in London they all look like stuffed sausages in miniskirts and stiletto heels as they drain a bottle of wine over lunch. And there aren't that many roly-poly men forced to grow that fat man goatee that's become de rigeur in the US.

Up by my spouse's rural German hometown, the local Schuetzenfest attendees all make people at a Texarkana tractor pull look like runway models.

A less-judgemental society, junk/fast food, spandex casual clothes and an increasingly car culture are clearly taking their toll. First the US, then Britain, then Europe, and soon China.

Sad ... unless you're running pension plans and are secretly rooting for falling longevity

Weird... I don't see many obese people around here. Where are they hiding? I mean, some chubbies, sure, but no real obese people. Except some of the guys who work in doner shops, but that's to be expected i suppose.

I just returned from the supermarket. What I have found over the last eleven years I've lived here is it seems there are more and more products coming onto the market made with high fructose corn syrup (HFCS) as an ingredient.

Yup. My parents have a family friend who has been the local cola bottler for 40 years, and he once said in a moment of clarity that their volumes went through the roof when they replaced cane sugar with HFCS and introduced the metric system to the US consumer via the two-liter bottle.

One can eat styrofoam peanuts if one puts enough sugar on them.

Even worse, the introduction of artificial sweetners created a whole generation of people whose bodies became acclimated to sweetness without nutrition, resulting in the "give me double cheesburger and a supersized fries ...and a diet soda" phenomenon.

Sad.

I don't know where you lot all live or who you associate with but there are fat Germans in most places it seems to me. There are lots of older people in particular carrying big guts in particular.

Go to somewhere like Heinerfest - really a high calorie eating convention disguised as a festival - and you see thousands upon thousands.

The trick is not to look at the face but the midriff (often hidden by oversized shirt thant's not tucked in) and bottom.

glad to see this. My German husband always touted how Germans are so healthy, Americans are so fat... well, now that I live here, all I see is FAT FAT FAT. ha!! -a Californian opinion

I live in the US now, but lived in DE in the early 90s (Munich, specifically). We come back to visit friends every 2 years or so and through the years I have noticed a slow increase in the number of obese people over there. We visited again this June and, in my opinion, the number seemed to have jumped even more the last couple of years. It's not a huge increase (no pun intended), but enough to notice and be surprised.

On a weird tangent, it also seemed to me this last time that the size of cars are catching up to US standards, too - either that or US cars are getting smaller - ha . Granted, Germany will never be a SUV nation, but it's now not like the UK with tiny KAs everywhere - I saw a lot more standard-size sedans. Coincidence?

I can also only really speak for Munich, but I hardly ever see fat people here.. when my parents were over from Australia at the start of the year, that is one thing they commented on too.. the lack of fatties..

I think all the overweight and obese people they were referring to are living in my town.

I went out today and saw many overweight people. The woman at the checkout counter at the supermarket was morbidly obese and could barely walk. I saw many overweight young woman as well and quite a few of them were eating icecream. But the article is right, this seem to be a bigger problem among men than women.

I also notice he referred to obesity as a disease and should be treated like any other disease with evident based interventions according to Dr. Sharma's article.

just go to the local pool and you will see lots of overweight people. Unfortunately, they all like to wear the skimpy speedo or bikini.

The US is still tops for overweight people though. The UK is a very close second, IMO.

Actually, Australia is the most obese country in the world.

I always wonder when you see these really bloated beer bellies, whats inside them, is it extra big intestines, fat, gas, air or what, and why does the gut react that way .

It ain't gas.

The visceral fat on the abdomen can be lost with lots of hard work and determination. The site below is a good example of a person who did lose his abdominal fat. I've learned so much about health and fitness from him and links on his site. He is definitely an inspiration to others.

Btw, I was reading his blog yesterday when I came across the article about Germany as Dr. Sharma wrote a comment for Dr. Muata Kamdibe that I happened to read. Check out his before and after pics. He went from 44% body fat to 7%:

http://mrlowbodyfat.blogspot.com/

And what kind of place is Munich?
This is a rich city, obesity has a high social-economic component in that remaining (relatively) slim and having the time/money* for sport is more prevalent with higher income groups. It's not just my opinion, read what the British Heart Foundation has to say on the topic.
Many TT posters are above average national wage earners, mainly due to their professional status and language abilities in many cases, and will therefore cluster in more affluent areas.
So frankly, it's no wonder Hutcho doesn't see many fat people in Munich. Try Cottbus instead.

It's that old traditional statement: the plural of anecdote is not fact.

Anyway, obesity is a public health issue and should be tackled as such.
On a less scientific front, I read in that pinnacle of journalism, yes, The News of the World, about their Fabulous Body Survey. Made rather telling reading about Joe and Joanne Bloggs opinion on desirable body shapes (I'd recommend that readers ignore the frankly shocking sub-editing on this piece, it is rammed to the gills with spelling errors...).

The FHM Australia survey had similar results.
I'd like to see some proper scientific research on this topic (please feel free to google) as I do think that the current body types aspired to by people are so unrealistic that folk just prefer not to even attempt to become more active or better (as in nutritionally soundly) fed, as they believe that they will fail anyway.

*sport does not have to cost a great deal of money and can be fitted into a daily life more easily that most people think, whether by having a walk/cycle component into a commute/daily tasks, swapping a pub visit with something more active as a social event, whatever works for you.

Katrina, I couldn't open the Fabulous Body link. I will try again. I agree you don't need a gym membership to begin to integrate exercise and fitness into your lifestyle. In addition, it's not just about exercise as it has to be a combination of exercise and proper nutrition, stress reduction, proper sleep, etc. Some people also need lots of support in order to implement a exercise and fitness program and stay motivated to continue it. Regarding people trying to obtain an unrealistic body shape, I was recently reading an article that stated at the gym it's best not to read fitness magazines while you work out because you are seeking to obtain a level of fitness that will probably be elusive and when you don't get the results fast enough you have a tendency to quit working out all together.

This is a proverb from Dr. Kamdibe site that rings true:

“Kung gusto, maraming paraan; kung ayaw, maraming dahilan.� Translated roughly, it means: “If you really want to, you’ll find lots of ways; if you really don’t, you’ll find lots of ways not to.�
- Filipino Proverb

My paternal grandmother is 96 and still at her college weight. Her secret was to never buy new (read bigger) clothes. Spouse (a life-long four-pack-a-day smoker) died at 86, but was always slim; his secret was "after 35, you have to choose between beer and dessert ... you can't have both".

My maternal grandfather just passed away at 94. His secrets were "keep your fingers out of the breadbasket" and drink more water than you think you need. Spouse (also a lifelong smoker and a doped-up hypochondriac) died at 83, but was also fit by today's standards weight-wise as her secret was she walked a lot ... and used lots of of potentially carcenogenic artificial sweetners.

They all watched their (generally increasingly heavier) baby boomer children start to hobble around in the 50s from bad knees and backs resulting from high-impact running and aerobics.

Take-away: Follow The Drinking Man's Diet, take all available stairs, don't ever buy clothes a size up from where you started, and avoid carbs and added sugar.

The link is now fixed, LR.

Expaticus, your post is interesting about your relatives. I hope to live to be as old. Obesity cuts at least 12 years from your life span sometimes more. I can tell you 13 years ago I struggled with being obese with 75 pounds of extra adipose tissue on my body. I had severe rotator cuff impingement related to my weight. I couldn't raise my arms over my head it was so painful. After the cortisone injections into my shoulders and the doctor informing me either I lose the weight or have surgery that was my wake up call. Surgery was not an option. So I sat out to learn everything I could about health, fitness and nutrition. This process was very time consuming. It took me a year to lose the weight. I went from a size 22 down to a size 8 from exercising and eating healthy. I have maintained that lost until today. But let me tell you it's not easy. I have to workout every day for at least an hour and on some days 2 hours. I limit my food intake, eat a low carb diet, and try to avoid sugar. I have also continued to study health, nutrition and fitness to keep me motivated and current on the lastest research. So today I weigh the same amount as I did when I graduated from high school over 30 years ago.

I can't believe that two thirds of all men are obese to be honest, that would mean that their BMI is 30 or higher. Overweight and obese, though, might be possible, i.e. a BMI over 25.

Congratulations. I was a slim kid who became a fat pre-pubescent. I got tired of feeling sick and tired and joined the cross country running team and JROTC, slimmed down and have managed to keep most of it off. But I'm built more like a neanderthal than a kenyan marathoner (6' tall with a 30' Levis inseam ... my 5' 7" spouse's length), and just had to have an MRI on one knee which shows the impact (no pun intended) of al those years of pounding around and jumping out of airplanes. My 70 year-old dad, whose life and health were changed by The Complete Book of Running just had a new hip and a new kness installed. A similar late-70s running convertee friend recently had to stand at the back of the church during his own daughter's wedding because his spine is like a collapsed pile of china plates and he literallt cannot sit normally anymore.

It's all hiking, biking and swimming for all of us here on out.

I agree totally , my brother also commented on this during his visit last month (Said something like “all so damn skinny here�)

When you cycle, make sure you spin your legs in a low gear; pushing hard in a high gear is an efficient way to ruin your knees.

In my opinion, sugar is an addictive drug. The only way I can lose weight is to take sugar (and white flour) out of my diet. I have also used 12 step meetings to fight this addiction. (OA) but it's hard to find meetings where I live. Take a look at the increased amount of sugar used in processed food over the last 30 years..then take a look at the increase in obesity...Do you think the two might be related???

LR, I am really impressed by that. I got from many of your posts that you're kind of health obsessed but never in a million years thought that you had ever struggled with your weight. Maybe that's the inspiration I need. My weight has fluctuated all my life with me doing the usual lose loads of weight then pile it plus a little bit more on. I've been reading one of the blogs you mentioned which is really interesting and I'm making a concerted effort to get rid of this fat which definitely limits my happiness!


One of my weight loss thingies is that I cycle to work everyday now but if I'm in a low gear then I can't go as quickly as I want. What do you mean by this statement when you say 'pushing' in a high gear. Should I just stay in the low gear and move my legs faster - am I burning more calories that way or where you simply stating the health benefits (i.e. sound knees) when you talked about this?

Strange actually what you’re saying because 30 years ago there were very little diet products around, Coca cola for example had just one product with 3 and a half cups of sugar to the litre, the fact that as a kid (in my case at least.) a coke was a real treat occurring perhaps once a month may have more to do with it….. imho ,what you’re used to as a child tends to carry on through your life I very rarely eat sweet things because as a kid we never or very rarely had them ,friends and family here still can’t understand why I don’t eat cake during this “German afternoon coffee and cake tradition� because it just does not appeal to me ,give me a plate of spuds carrots and peas and a sausage any day ,so in a way you could be right about the addiction part ...?

Absolutely, I believe sugar and other carbohydrates are addictive. Wait, let me change that, I know for a fact they are from my own experience. In fact, there was an article I was reading that stated the same pleasure center in your brain is stimulated when you eat carbs as when using addictive drugs. I have a book by Heller called Carbohydrate Addiction that speaks to the addictiveness of some foods. I think it's multifaceted this problem with obesity and I do think process foods have something to do with it and additives like high fructose corn syrup and other artificial sugars.

What I have found is I have to eat foods closest to their natural states and avoid sugar like it's poison. Btw, carbohydrates break down in the body as sugar so I eat complex carbs and foods that are low glycemic. But there is absolutely no getting around eating carbs and your body need carbs to functions. But it's the kind of carbs you chose to eat that can be problematic.

The other thing is sometimes I have to catch myself from emotional eating when I'm stressed. Lastly, I cannot stress enough how important exercise and strength training is. I know for a fact, diets or diet pills just don't work, you have to be willing to change your lifestyle and some how find the motivation to change it.

Here's a page from MSN about why people can't lose weight.
http://health.msn.com/fitness/articlepage...4&GT1=10613

Here's one of my favorite blogrolls. The information in these blogs is pretty comprehensive and I've learned a lot from them.

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/marks-blogroll/

Add "... and an ice cold beer" to this and we're completely congruent. This kaffee und kuechen thing is a post-war privation legacy that simply must be stopped

It's easy to put on weight if you're eating too much. I was surprised to discover how small proper serving sizes actually are and have learned to cut down the quantities I eat. But if I was served something this small in a restaurant, I'd think I wasn't getting value for money!
http://www.mfhs.org/images/PortionChart.jpg


http://www.mealsmatter.org/EatingForHealth...px?articleId=52

New York City just made it compulsory for food chains to display calorie counts on their menus: http://www.efluxmedia.com/news_New_York_Re...iday_20642.html
I think it is a good idea, although it may just easily be ignored by some people, just like health warnings on cigarette packs.

I find that here in Hamburg the majority of people are pretty slim as well, especially the women.

I however have gained weight since I've been here - too much hefe-weizen and being a desk-jockey, living and working in the same building so no need to walk ANYWHERE except between bars at weekends or a few km home from a friend's place if I've missed the last S-Bahn or whatever. Plus, I'm sorry, but the majority of supermarket food here is just plain BAD.

I had to smile when I saw this thread posted directly above the Free refills on softdrinks at Pizza Hut, American genius finally comes to Germany thread.

fruit & veg is fruit & veg in any supermarket

Thought so...and noticed it instantly, and I've only been here less than 3 months!

And some Germans I know asked me if Americans only ate McDonalds! ...I come from San Francisco please!!!

So you only eat In-And-Out burgers*?
I'm going back to bed.
But not before I recount my weight-gain/loss pile of sooth.

I was always skinny, not an ounce of fat, but then I graduated uni, got a job, ate what I wanted, got physically complacent. And bang. I suddenly looked, within the space of 3 months, like I'd eaten a LOT of Fray Bentos pies for a living. Combined with the cheap, subsidised Irish breakfasts in the company canteen, I (and a lot of other colleagues) put on a shedload. Then I saw a photo of mesel' on the internal website, sitting in a chair, surrounded by colleagues, all throwing Montana poses, and I was a fat fuck - less Pacino and more Corleone. Jowly, bloated, shit and unhealthy. Not long after, I moved with the missus over to Munich. And the German mates of me missus were not circumspect in saying things like "You're a fat wanker" or "when do you expect to reach Kampfgewicht again? Chortle chortle". So I decided to change shit/me - if only to show these smug Munich wankers that there's more to life than Daddys money and when I get to fighting weight, I will have the distinct pleasure of wiping seven shades of smugness off your coiffeured, Barbour-Boy, will-never-have-to-lift-a-finger-in-your-life-Daddy-pays-the-lease-on-your-Porsche-vacuous-buttondown-blue-shirt/shitgreasehair-smug-cuntface (y'all know exactly the kind of spoonfed yuppie that this city seems to churn up in distressingly arsey amounts - they'd be called Hooray Henrys in the UK, here they're just common-or-garden cunts). I digress.

Up every morning at 7, jog on the spot, varying speeds in one place in the apartment, start slowly and shift gear according to how well I thought I could do on the day; started push-ups, 10 a day were enough for a fat 'un at the start, moved progressively to 50 and peaked at 100 after 3 months of continuous and consistent exercise. Kept that up, intermittently replaced by sex (not an aside, sex is bloody good exercise, but also directly related to how far you have to run to catch up with the circus when it leaves town without you), but the regimen was basically kept intact and I lost weight and kept it off and enjoyed doing it.

'Tis all balance at the end of the day; walk to the postbox, walk the dogs to where you'd normally drive and release them, take ten minutes in the bathroom before your shower and jog on the spot, walk the escalator instead of standing on the right with the Hermans, skip dessert or have a fruit salad with yoghurt instead of cream, drink less beer (yeah, right), set a cut-off time for stopping the bevvies even though the craic is good, less tasty bread and more steamed veg, the occasional fleischpflanzerl but offset by walking a bit more, Munich's not that big, use the bike; it's not fucking rocket science at the end of the day. Alternatively, gather stuff to worry lots about. Like kill someone (preferably a rollerblader), with half a frozen badger to the thorax. That seems to do the trick too.

Bear out.

*which are, incidentally, the best burgers I've ever eaten, ridiculously tasty SOBs.

Again people are getting worried just because some "scientist" (or, rather, insurance company) says that the BMI is THE standard, when it is, in fact, a VERY bad indicator of obesity. Waist size is a much better indicator. I also believe that the term overweight is a bad adjective to use when it comes to discussing these topics, as weight by itself is not a great indicator of health.

Although I haven't been called "slim" since I was about 15 years old, I have never been obese (although I now, indeed, need to remove fat mass). I am nearly 1.83m tall and currently weigh 104 kg, and my waist is around 98cm. Granted, it's high, even for me, but even with my "fighting weight" of about 94 kg (where my waist would be closer to 85cm), I would still have a BMI of 28, which is near the "obese" borderline. The BMI does not take into account people who are (like me) on the stocky side or on the slim side, and WILL give a bigger false reading the farther your are from the "average".

It doesn"t surprise me that the Germans are so fat. Look at the numbers of bakeries out there - high carb and loaded with sugar - and that is just a SNACK for them. My workmate drinks 3-4 litres of coke everyday. They switched to Coke light recently but they still drink way too many to be healthy. Oh and their addiction to chocolate. Top that with heavy big lunches in the cafeteria and always deserts. Come on, a fried pork with french fries is just as horrible as McDs for lunch. My mother in law fries all her meat first with a load of oil, then puts a heavy cream sauce over it it, serves it with fried noodles and the salad is dripping in oil. And she thinks this is healthy? Where are the healthy options on the menu? Salads costs twice what fried meat costs and all the portions are ridiculous.

Excercise? Well with the cost of health club memberships the average man can not afford it. Or they are too busy at the beer garden to make time for sports.

According to my BMI, I am obese, apparently. It was news to me.

Eh? I mostly see Gerrys leaving the bakers with some weird 'bread' that some idiot has clearly spilt hamster food onto. Vollkorn this, dinkel that - all meant to be well healthy innit?

But had to laugh this morning as woman I work with (the smug mother of one who always asks me if I want kids) started me on a lecture about why I should eat less meat and more complex carbs and all organic and blah blah blah.*
Except she's fat, eats desserts daily in the canteen, does no sport and looks at least 5 years older than me even though she's 4 years younger.

Nod and grin, nod and grin.

*own fault - I have some protein shake powder in the office as emergency food, sometimes get stuck between meetings, sport and social life so rather than eat just random crap, I'll have a vanilla shake with a banana in it. She, unfortunately, spotted it.

Funny Katrina. Sometimes people don't perceive themselves as being overweight or fat even though they are. I didn't until I started having health problems. I gained my weight over a five year period and it took a while for my mind to catch up with the reality of my body. Regarding your colleague appearing older than you, I have noticed from other people who have lost a considerable amount of weight how much younger they appear.

Regarding don riina comment, it's amazing to me just how many bakeries are here and just how many ways the Germans can make bread. I will save my thoughts on bread eating for another day.

Indeed. I'm surprised so many people here seem not to have noticed how many fat people there are here.

I'm what used to be regarded as the average sized European woman - 5ft 5 and 9st (1,65m and 57 kg) and "big boned (ie. coathanger shoulders and hips). That makes me German 38 or UK 8/10 (as in "modern sizing" which flatters us by being more generous that it used to be ).

I've just got back from clothes shopping and found hardly any clothes small enough for me. Most ranges started a size up (German 38) and the ones I bought hang off me. Assuming that makes that size the "bottom end" these days, and not even "average", that's scary.

Like your example, I also come across women of my height who weight 65kg + (I think that's past 10 stone and closing in on 11) who regard themselves as thin .

And let's not start with the men. Anyone who goes to a sauna, swim bath, beach or lake knows the horros stories that the typical middle-aged german midriff tells.

I think that, even if you can find the right size, the women's clothes here tend to be badly cut. Boxy, shapeless and unflattering.

My dad's side of the family is German, skinny, exercises a lot and eats healthy. They die in their 70s. My mom's side are relaxed and laid back comfortable intellectuals and live into their 90s. There's no guaranteed formula for immortality, people.

There is no formula for immortality.
I don't believe exercise makes you live longer, it makes you live better, IMHO.