Tenant's rights when the owner wants to move in

In late '06 my family moved into the apartment we currently rent. Approximately a month after we signed the contract and moved in, without warning us of her intentions or letting us know the building was up for sale before we moved in, the owner sold it. We found out when the new owners showed up demanding to enter because they wanted to view the space.

Afterward rumor went around that the new owners' intention was to evict us all and move their own families in. My husband contacted one of the men per phone and he said that it was indeed his
intention to move in eventually but it wasn't going to happen until much later as he needed the rents provided by us and the other families to pay off the mortgage. So we shouldn't worry and to go
ahead and settle in. All the families in the house were told the same.

A short while after that the old owner refunded our deposit. We held onto it thinking the new owners would contact us about it but they never did.

Fast forward two years.

About three months ago one of the owners suddenly decided he needed the refund and called for it. Since it'd been so long and his sudden interest in it was a surprise, we told him we didn't have it
and would need some time to get it together, which was the truth.

In the meantime, about a week ago, we received both an eviction telephone call and letter. The call was from one owner saying it was time we moved out, they were ready to move in. He was giving us until the end of January 2009 to turn the keys over. No mention was made again of the refund.

The next day we received a registered letter from the second owner, self-typed with no letterhead, no witness aside from his signature, no clue it was done in an official way whatsoever (ie - through a
lawyer), stating simply that they wanted the place we now inhabit, it was their intention to move in and live in it themselves and we have until the end of November this year to be out and turn in the keys.

The problems with this are many and varied.

Problem #1: Money - The end of November is extremely short notice for us financially. We don't have the money for a deposit or first month's rent for a new place, nor do we have the money to hire a mover, thus my husband and myself will be doing all the work.

Problem #2: Time - Since my husband works 12-14 hour days an hour away from our present town there is a time factor, and it would have to be done strictly on the weekends, which if all went well would leave us approximately 5 days. During those five days he would also be required to work from home by his company.

Problem #3: Opportunity - In my last experience finding a suitably large enough place for our children (4 rooms required, minimum) it took all of the three months we were given to evacuate the premises. If the apartment we live in now hadn't opened up at the last moment we would've had nowhere to go. There wasn't anything suitable available despite the fact we kept ourselves open to everything. Either the places we saw were too small, or the neighborhood was very rough (in one place we witnessed a fight while we were viewing the property), or the place was rundown to the point it was undesirable, or the costs were too extreme, etc.

Problem #4: Extremely bad timing - I'm eight months pregnant and scheduled for a C-section in mid-to-end October. This leaves only my husband to do the carrying work. Since we can't afford to hire anyone and I can't be relied on to take up the slack because of the surgery, and my husband will only be available to do it if the planets align *just so*, and even *if* that happens is only one man... in short it looks incredibly difficult. I can pack until then but won't be able to lift, and we'll be doing all this - should we even find somewhere to go that quickly - with a newborn.

What I'm wondering is if what the owner is doing is legal and do we have any rights concerning the time frame for leaving. The end of January as suggested by the first owner would've been very difficult but much preferable to the letter we received.

Anyone have a similar experience or thoughts regarding this? We're shaken to say the least. My husband is currently looking into ways to avoid it but we haven't found anything as yet.

As for contacting a lawyer, we were sued in '07 for ridiculously high and undeserved costs attributed to us concerning our last apartment. It was a matter of our old landlord rennovating and trying to get us to foot the bill. I won't go into detail but suffice it to say he made a good run at robbing us but didn't have a leg to stand on and the case was dropped. We've just now gotten our legal bill paid and with the baby and impending move to hire another so soon would be an additional hardship. If anyone has any thoughts I'd be grateful to hear them. Thanks in advance for any help you may give.

This should all be in your lease.

Short advice:
Join the Mieterverein now. Get their advice. Don't panic!
There are strict laws applying to Eigenbedarfskündigung (terminating a lease with the intent to move in as the owner). Don't agree to move out, don't even contact your landlord without witnesses. Time's a-wasting, don't spend it on an ex-pat internet forum, talk to the specialists.
Good luck!

This sounds as if you do not have a Rechtschutzversicherung... However if you dont have one its going to be too late for this case (hence dont run around signing up for one)...

I wish you luck, but please do spare us your money/time/preganancy/opportunity sob stories. "This is not a good time for us to move out" or "I don't think we will find anywhere else that's suitable" is of no importance to anyone other than yourselves. From a legal standpoint, it makes not a jot of a difference.

Do by all means contact the Mietverein (I'm a little surprised you or your husband didn't think of that for yourselves), but I suspect the answer will be "You are entitled to three months' notice and that's what you've got".

They seem to have two contradictory notices, one for November, one for January. Another reason to consult the specialists.

Also: you weren't entitled to a refund of the deposit from the old owner but you are entitled to get it back by the new owner. All that crap is their problem, not yours.

It's not clear, but it sounds like the first notice was verbal. I would tend to follow the one sent by registered mail. But I'm certainly not disagreeing with your advice to go to the Mietverein. My point was more that they should lay off the sob-stories.

The new owners have to sort the deposit out with the old owner. The old owner can claim it back from OP as damages if he has to reimburse the new owners (§812 BGB). But that would sidetrack from the main issue here.

The new owner will have to prove he has no alternative property in which he can live. Just saying he owns it and is entitled to evict you is not enough. If it goes to court he will have to lay out his complete stall (they don't want to do this believe me...) and even then the judge will give you enough time to find a suitable alternative. Please take the advice and join the Mieterverein (60€ for the year). They will give advice (they are all lawyers), correspond with the owner on your behalf and they will also tell you what your chances are of being able to stay and for how long.

I've been through this and it is not nice...

From the little I know of these things as the OP says she is pregnant there is a chance very close to zero that any court in Germany would allow her and her family to be evicted. They could stop paying the rent now and start destroying the place and still it would make no difference to this, and there is nothing the owner can do to change or influence this. It may be the 'eigenbedarf' trumps that, but I'd be surprised.

It's not as simple that, under normal circumstances the owner can only claim Eigenbedarf if this intention is stated in the contract. Obviously if the house is then sold on to somebody else this changes things, but I very much doubt whether the new owner will be able to get you out in less than a couple of years.

It's important enough to bear repeating yet one more time - get off down to the Mieterverein as quickly as you can, but in the meantime, don't panic, German legislation regarding rentals is extremely tenant-friendly.

I would have to go with RMA on this one. Legislation in Germany is extremely tenant friendly and usually three months notice only refers to the tenant side. The landlord is basically forced to keep you as long as you want to be there. There is some question about how Eigenbedarf can be used, particularly in the case of a transfer of the property, but I think your local Mieterverein should be able to tell you all of this.

As for Small Town Boy's complaints about sob stories, I would like to go on record that I find that rather heartless and inappropriate. I think we all know no one forces us to spend time on TT or read the articles/questions/requests, so clearly you were looking for the sob story before you clicked on the heading. No point in complaining about it now. How is it that so many people seem to feel that just because you're typing on the computer, there isn't a human being on the other side reading it?

... and in fact it is very relevant since the fact that the OP is pregnant will be one of the (more important) things which the court will take into consideration, and it is important that she knows this.

This is TT. We're machines.

No, I wasn't looking for a sob story, I was looking for factual information. I was also hoping that it would be kept as brief as possible whilst mentioning all the pertinent facts, since this is the most effective way of gaining the most relevant responses, without wasting everybody's time. I accept that the pregnancy issue may prove to be pertinent, but how many hours the husband works and where he works them is of no interest to anybody.

Your posts add zero to the thread and take time to read, so much for your brevity.

KäptnKnitterbart: "This should all be in your lease."

And yet it wasn't. We're still using the lease from the old owner, nothing yet received from the current owners, and it looks as if it was self done/homemade, like a quick handwritten receipt you'd receive from a private seller. Lesson learned, and others continuing to be learned...

sarabyrd: Re: Mieterverein - Yes! We realized this an option since late last week. Although my husband didn't find any of the places you linked he found a couple others. I'm recommending the Deutsche Mieterbund e.V., per your suggestion. Thank you. Also, it was his thought to let time run down to the last minute before responding. I'm very glad I got a second opinion on that.

HEM: Re: Rechtschutzversicherung - No, not yet.

Small Town Boy: I think the pregnancy issue would be relevant in court somewhere along the line of causing undue hardship without proving good cause.

As for sob stories I really didn't realize it read like one until you pointed this out. On second read-thru I guess it does. Still, the things I stated there I considered important enough to the story else I wouldn't have written them. If it takes too much of your time you know what your options are.

I did find it ironic you'd scold my 'sob story' since your profile states "... excessive whingeing since 1978".

Corcaigh, HellesAngel, RMA: Thanks for the encouragement and input!

chris8tine: There's always one, eh? In some forums there are several. Thanks for taking the time to give your input.

dolfan: ouch! *lol*

The pregnancy and the amount of kids you have all play an important part in this.How many hours your husband works does not but how much he earns does.You have nothing to be worried about but get down to the Mietverein.You can find out where your nearest one is on www.mieterbund.de
Take out the option with the lawyer insurance.Forget what STB says like his title Small Town and of course Boy

Thanks Mik.

I spoke to my husband again and he said an important detail to keep in mind is that the Mietverein won't support/speak for a tenant in court unless they have a membership six months previous to the time an issue arises. So this is basically useless to our case for all but advice. On that note we'll still contact them but it looks like we'll be going through a lawyer after all. And to think all this trouble is for nothing since we're willing to go, we just don't want to do it with both hands tied behind our back.

Assuming the letters didn´t contain considerably more detailed explanations for the Eigenbedarfskündigung than you indicated, they´re in all likelyhood not sufficient for the intended eviction in the legal sense ...

Die Eigenbedarfskündigung

I'm not certain, but I believe I read somewhere relatively recently (probably here on TT), that this has changed and you can now pay a second charge (also about 60€, I believe) to skip the six month wait. Even if that turns out not to be the case, they will certainly give you advice immediately after joining.

You may find that you don't need a lawyer anyway, because when you approach the landlord (acting on the advice of the Mieterverein, of course) you may find he realises he hasn't a hope and gives up.

In the past i have always got the Mietverein to write the letters.It costs a couple of Euros but they then dictate the law to a T. and quote recent court decisions

the interesting thing is that if you do move out and you finally find out that the owners did not move in you can go to court and get all moving costs etc refunded.

Then I believe there is little point in rushing out to sign up for Rechtschutzversicherung as it wont help you with the current issue.
IMHO a Rechtschutzversicherung is a sensible thing to have, possibly more so if you rent accommodation...

You are all such a wealth of info and good advice. Thanks so much for taking the time to educate the clueless! (namely me)

No point running to get Rechtsschutzversicherung when something has already gone/is going wrong as they all have two get outs:
1) They won't cover any known, existing or reasonably expected trouble.
2) There's usually a six month wait after signing before they'll pay anything out.

Noted. Thanks. And we won't. Not for this round, anyway.

Truthfully, I would've only considered such a thing superficially before, in a 'do we really need this?' type of way. But now this is the second time in less than a year we've had problems with a landlord trying to get more out of a contract than was fair. I'm beginning to see a pattern evolving and the reason for the existence of something that looked 'iffy' to me before.

As a landlord who has been on the wrong end of some of these "letters that dictate the law to a T" I can assure you that thats not always true and that often the steamhammer approach of the Mieterverein can make a simple situation a lot worse (I wasnt screwing my tenant the way the he and the Mieterverein claimed I was and I proved it but I sure went out of my way to do so after I got the letter - The tenant ended up several hundred euros out of pocket in comparison to what he would have had without pissing me off).

HOWEVER - Eigenbedarfskündigung of a pregnant family is NOT a simple situation and the Mieterverein can probably be a lot of help, so go for it.

andy M

Theoretically you can but its extremely difficult to prove. All the landlord has to do is move a close relative into the house and then find a good reason to move them out again after a few weeks. You then have to prove that his intention was to do that all along.

Its much easier to refuse to move out unless the landlord agrees to pay all your moving and agents costs up front. Thats perfectly legal (if you are prepared to move at all) and can even be a good deal for the landlord compared to going to court, especially if his "Eigenbedarf" is a bit dodgy.

andy M

Disclaimer to whomever it may concern: This answer is long. I realize it's long. I'm not apologizing for length because I enjoyed writing it. I suggest bringing a snack and settling in or skipping it completely.


I'm not quite sure our current landlords intentions are to screw us over, but the end effect is that should their wishes come to pass they will quite effectively be screwing us over. And yes, it is a difficult situation for both parties. In my personal opinion they seem like two newbies to what they're doing, this is the first house they've ever owned so they're excited about it, and they're helping out their relatives and family which is all understandable.

At the risk of being redundant I'll elaborate a bit. About a month after we moved in, without knowing the building had been sold, without even knowing who the people were, they showed up with a pushy bank representative who literally put his foot in our door, unannounced, demanded to enter and then barged into the apartment without notice to view the premises. They then went through all our rooms unaccompanied. There were three of them and after they cleared the door they split up so there was no way to keep an eye on it all. I was alone at the time and ignorant of what my tenant's rights were in regard to this. When we complained the bank rep said notice was sent a week previous, but we neither signed for nor received anything by post, ever. This is irrelevant but still shocked and made me wary.

Not long after the more polite owner called and arranged an appointment to more thoroughly view the place once more without the bank rep, albeit with his mother in tow. In hindsight I realize he was mapping the place for said mother and our apartment was most likely the one she had chosen to be her own. This after assuring us they wouldn't need the apartment until much, much later, please do relax and settle in. But whatever, it's his property and prerogative.

Interestingly enough not 3-4 weeks before now I had a conversation with my husband in which I communicated my strong desire to be closer to the city and its conveniences. There are also several small things about this place I don't like but tolerate. Cracked foundations in the cellar. Squeaky wooden floors overall. Miniscule kitchen. Not enough bedrooms. Too many stairs. Sitting claustrophobically in the middle of a valley with little view. Two sets of older neighbors who've been living together since Methuselah was an infant and are often difficult as they want things done their own way, 'just so', but can't seem to agree on which is the dominant, so we often get two sets of instructions and stay in hot water with the opposite party.

P#1: Dump the dryer water in the plants!

P#2: No, put it down the drain, it'll kill the plants!

P#1: No, it'll clog the drain and you'll pay to have it cleared. Put it on the plants, she's crazy, it won't hurt them!

P#2: Don't you dare! Put it on the sidewalk! No, not there - there!

P#1: No! Don't put it there, walk it out to the courtyard exactly 15 steps, not 14, with your right finger on your nose looking skyward, and dump it by the wall! But only on alternate Tuesdays in months that don't contain an 'R'.

(At this point I've already gone cross-eyed.)

These are just a few of the many little things that add up to make me more than willing to look elsewhere for a more suitable long-term living arrangement. My only complaint is that with the pregnancy it's just really horrible timing. I can't get out in their proposed time frame and do it without great difficulty.

Ideally what would settle the whole thing might be an honest talk letting them know how we feel, but if they aren't totally above board this could backfire. I know how it would be for my mother to be waiting two years to live in her own house without rent or taxes then have the occupants of said house refuse to vacate for another six months, or indefinitely. I wouldn't be so willing to help them with *anything*, and definitely not foot the bill for their move. It might even gear me up to get them out more quickly and by whatever means necessary if I thought they were needlessly stalling.

So sadly, honesty doesn't look like it's in our best interest at this point. Thus the Mietverein and a lawyer which is going to look unnecessarily heavy-handed to a first time owner, no doubt about it. I just don't know how else to go about it and still protect my family's interests as I'm sure the owner will protect his.

Re: getting moving costs refunded -


We're really not interested in making a buck off these guys, not that that was your suggestion. We just want time to get our funds and act together. Ideally it'd be fair for both parties.

An unrelated aside: There is another set of neighbors who're being evicted for the same reason, who've lived here for 20+ years. They're not making an effort to leave at all, nor do they seem worried. My husband said by law they have 1 and 1/2 years before they're required to go and they appear to be taking their time about it. It would seem this puts a lot of pressure on the owner to get us out of here that much more quickly simply because he can.

It will be interesting to see how all this pans out.

Hi, I do not know if you have managed to get this sorted out since there were no updates. I can totally understand what you are going through as I just got the eviction letter myself yesterday. See other thread for my whining. It is crappy.

Like you, my place is not great great but livable. I wouldnt mind to move, except that I have only been here since June and all the furniture are new and installed inside the apartment, which means to move them out would just be expensive and alot of hassle.

I think you have a better case than me. In mine, the sub agreement ends when the main agreement ends though I was not informed by either party. His claim was that he wanted to hire a new Hausmeister and he would need this place.

What's really irritating is even if his lame excuse was true, he should get the old Hausmeister to leave, not me. I'm also not the newest tenant in this building which he owns. I am, however, the only non-German living here.

I wish you luck and it would be great if you can contact me on my thread regarding your experience with the Mieteverein. I would need to go to them first thing next week and am worried that they wont be able to help seeing I've not been a member for 6 months.