Just wanted to know where I stand.
Today I returned a faulty satellite receiver to Saturn and wanted it exchanged - I bought it on 10 July.
Apparently, I am not entitled to an exchange but need to have it repaired. Not very happy about this as it's only 2 months old. Unfortunately, my German is not sufficient to argue very well and I don't know what the law says about this sort of thing.
Anyone got any suggestions?
Thanks in advance
Redlawrey
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Consumer rights regarding faulty goods
Exchange permitted only if repair not possible
As far as I'm aware you have to let them try to repair it two or three times. Only then can you demand that they exchange it for a new one.
QUOTE
§ 437 Rechte des Käufers bei Mängeln
Ist die Sache mangelhaft, kann der Käufer, wenn die Voraussetzungen der folgenden Vorschriften vorliegen und soweit nicht ein anderes bestimmt ist,
1.nach § 439 Nacherfüllung verlangen,
2.nach den §§ 440, 323 und 326 Abs. 5 von dem Vertrag zurücktreten oder nach § 441 den Kaufpreis mindern und
3.nach den §§ 440, 280, 281, 283 und 311a Schadensersatz oder nach § 284 Ersatz vergeblicher Aufwendungen verlangen.
Ist die Sache mangelhaft, kann der Käufer, wenn die Voraussetzungen der folgenden Vorschriften vorliegen und soweit nicht ein anderes bestimmt ist,
1.nach § 439 Nacherfüllung verlangen,
2.nach den §§ 440, 323 und 326 Abs. 5 von dem Vertrag zurücktreten oder nach § 441 den Kaufpreis mindern und
3.nach den §§ 440, 280, 281, 283 und 311a Schadensersatz oder nach § 284 Ersatz vergeblicher Aufwendungen verlangen.
If the merchandise is faulty the customer can
1. demand rework, Section 439 BGB (Civil Code)
2. rescind the purchase agreement, Section 440 BGB, or receive a discount, Section 441 BGB
3. claim damages, Sections 440 et al., or claim damages for futile expenditure, Section 441.
QUOTE
§ 440 Besondere Bestimmungen für Rücktritt und Schadensersatz
1Außer in den Fällen des § 281 Abs. 2 und des § 323 Abs. 2 bedarf es der Fristsetzung auch dann nicht, wenn der Verkäufer beide Arten der Nacherfüllung gemäß § 439 Abs. 3 verweigert oder wenn die dem Käufer zustehende Art der Nacherfüllung fehlgeschlagen oder ihm unzumutbar ist. 2Eine Nachbesserung gilt nach dem erfolglosen zweiten Versuch als fehlgeschlagen, wenn sich nicht insbesondere aus der Art der Sache oder des Mangels oder den sonstigen Umständen etwas anderes ergibt.
1Außer in den Fällen des § 281 Abs. 2 und des § 323 Abs. 2 bedarf es der Fristsetzung auch dann nicht, wenn der Verkäufer beide Arten der Nacherfüllung gemäß § 439 Abs. 3 verweigert oder wenn die dem Käufer zustehende Art der Nacherfüllung fehlgeschlagen oder ihm unzumutbar ist. 2Eine Nachbesserung gilt nach dem erfolglosen zweiten Versuch als fehlgeschlagen, wenn sich nicht insbesondere aus der Art der Sache oder des Mangels oder den sonstigen Umständen etwas anderes ergibt.
Regarding rescission and damages
1. There is no need for setting a due date if the vendor refuses both kinds of rework according to Section 439 or if the rework has failed or if the rework is intolerable for the purchaser. 2. The rework is considered failed after the second unsuccessful attempt unless other results transpire inherent to the type of object or defect or if other circumstances occur.
So yes, you have to give them two attempts to fix the satellite box and put it into satisfactory working order. If they fail to do so you may demand a new, functioning satellite box or cancel the purchase altogether. Depending on the store's policy you might not receive cash or a refund to your credit card but a voucher instead. Read the provisions of the T&C.
Thanks for all your info - just a quick update....
within a week I'd received a letter from Saturn telling me that my item was ready for picking up.
Well - they've only given me a new one - what I asked for originally. What a waste of my time and theirs - why didn't they just exchange it in the first place?!
within a week I'd received a letter from Saturn telling me that my item was ready for picking up.
Well - they've only given me a new one - what I asked for originally. What a waste of my time and theirs - why didn't they just exchange it in the first place?!
QUOTE (redlawrey @ Sep 23 2008, 8:35 pm) 
What a waste of my time and theirs - why didn't they just exchange it in the first place?!
They wanted to try and repair it first and if for any reason they couldn't they upgraded the service and replaced it.
Replacing every electrical good that develops a minor repairable fault is not an option.
yes, but surely replacing faulty electrical goods which are only a few weeks old should be standard. Fair enough if i'd had it for a longer period.
You'd had it for nearly 2 months, not a few weeks. I don't think it was unreasonable to try to repair it, it could have been something really simple.
QUOTE (redlawrey @ Sep 24 2008, 2:21 pm)
yes, but surely replacing faulty electrical goods which are only a few weeks old should be standard. Fair enough if i'd had it for a longer period.
The age has nothing to do with it. By replacing the product, they are left with the broken one and have little choice but to throw it away. Apparently companies don't like seeing their profits disappearing like that. These things don't grow on trees.
I think realistically, it's was not worth repairing, given time to do the job spares etc, even if it was something simpe. The unit was less than 30 euros so economically not viable to repair. But must have cost saturn and the company more than that anyway in admin costs etc.
Maybe they are obliged to try to repair it, because of regulations about electronic waste?
Ah, we are graced by the presence of the latest graduate of the University of MakeShipUp. A master's studet, no doubt.
woof.
woof.
No, the electronics industry is not obliged to try and repair everything due to waste issues.
The industry has to pay to CLEANLY recycle ALL elctronic waste so there is an incentive not to produce it in the firs place.
Depending on the company, you can get a totally new unit automatically if it is Dead on Arrival.
The company I work for has amongst the industry's most geneous time limits for this: TWO WEEKS from purchase.
The law and the service level offered in this case functions as it should do.
There is no need for a complaining thread really, but hey, that's TT.
The industry has to pay to CLEANLY recycle ALL elctronic waste so there is an incentive not to produce it in the firs place.
Depending on the company, you can get a totally new unit automatically if it is Dead on Arrival.
The company I work for has amongst the industry's most geneous time limits for this: TWO WEEKS from purchase.
The law and the service level offered in this case functions as it should do.
There is no need for a complaining thread really, but hey, that's TT.
I think you´ll find that if goods cannot be repaired you will receive a new item.
As for how long since you brought it - well, I know one of the leading discounters is not permitted to take back goods above a certain purchase price longer than two months after the purchase date - the "hersteller guarantee" really is then with the company who produced the item, and not with the sellers...
As for how long since you brought it - well, I know one of the leading discounters is not permitted to take back goods above a certain purchase price longer than two months after the purchase date - the "hersteller guarantee" really is then with the company who produced the item, and not with the sellers...
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