Legalities of having children outside marriage

Hi All,
I'm spaniard and my girlfriend is german, and we will be having a baby soon. We have agreed not to get married for the moment.
However, I would like to know what our situation will be with regards to the following:

- what tax class are we? can we get family exemptions?
- if something happended to me, could she claim a widow's pension?
- she is currently working, but if she wished to stop working, would she be covered by my health insurance?
- in case we broke up, what would my obligations towards her, not the baby, be?
- any other inconveniences that you might know?

Thanks for your help

I guess your tax class is single with 1 kid but I am not an expert. Which family exceptions are you talking about? You are not married, you have no legal family. Your girlfriend can get kindergeld though.

If something happens to you now she will not get any pension even if you are married.

If she stops working she can not be covered by your health insurance, you are not married.

If you broke up, I guess you have no obligations towards her, the kid might be a different thing.

Inconveniences? Get married.

One has tax class I and the other II.

You will have to pay for her and the kid no matter what, till the kid turns three. After that you'll only have to pay for the kid till it's 18. If she's indigent, her calims can be stretched after the kid turns three, till as long as she needs support to raise the kid.

My tuppence worth - I have always considered that kids are the massive huge commitment not a crappy piece of paper. We agreed we both had no interest in marriage unless having kids. Once screamer #1 appeared we got married.

So you have already made a 10 times greater decision (in my humble opinion) in having a sprog, so the marriage bit is a non-event. You can walk away from a marriage in a heartbeat, but not kids. So might as well just sign on the dotted line and be done with it.

It also helps *cough* when they go bonkers with post-natal depression - its trickier to walk away from the marriage.

p.s. I don't actually know the date of our marriage, I would need to look up the paperwork - it is not considered a "date" as such in our house.

Youll both be the same as before (Steuerklasse 1). It only changes if you get married.

What do you mean by "family exemptions?". Basically the mother will be due any and all state support. You will need to register yourself as the father i norder to get any "family support".


IANAL but AFAIK no. This was one of the main issues that lead to gay couples demanding a same-sex "marriage" which allows a same-sex partner similar advantages to a "normal" spouse. If you have private insurance you can name your partner as beneficiary but there are all sorts of tax issues so get a good advisor.


No.


AFAIK none at all.


Thats about it.

andy M

If you aren't married then the child only counts as half (0.5) for tax reasons.

Thanks Johnny, Helter, pog et al.
I got contradictory answers reagrding the Steuerklasse. which one is right?

So its obvious that getting married saves a lot of fuss.

Do I have more rights regarding the baby if I'm married?
In case we divorce, what is the status of rights and obligations? I understand custody will be probably given to the mother, but is it normal in germany to give a pension to the mother after divorce?
What about your personal assets? do they become owned by both persons, or do you keep your own persnal ownership of your asset?

Thanks

Yes you would have more rights if you were married but she could also give you these rights afterwards anyway if she wants.

Yes, the pension contribution which you have to pay is proportional to the length of time you were married.

That's a somewhat simplified statement, but it's the case under normal circumstances. It is possible under certain circumstances to opt out of this obligation, but it's not easy and most lawyers don't even bother to tell you about the possibility.


Normally what each brought into the marriage remains their individual property, whatever is acquired after the marriage is joint property. However, it is possible to sign a contract whereby specific items bought after the marriage become the sole property of one individual. This can be sensible, for example, if one partner is self-employed so that you don't lose all your assets if they go bust.

onion, since no one else has done it yet, I will throw in the obligatory "go see a financial advisor" advice. Certainly you do not want to rely on TTers for information as important to your decision-making as this.

Over here, you keep what you had BEFORE the marriage. After the marriage assets are more of a bunfight I understand but around the old 50-50 rule.

But as a father I would say on balance GET married. Its gonna get you more rights both before and after the divorce, and slow her down from legging it with your kids.

Thank all again.
Don't worry cinzia, I will. It took me a while to decipher what IANAL AFAIK means, but more or less is the same that you are saying.
Thanks Johnny for the advice.

We had a baby in the April, we are also unmarried. We got half a baby each on our Lohnsteuerkarte... Messy business that

To put it in a nutshell: As long as you're not married with the mother of your child you're a stranger to both of them for juristic purposes. When you want to claim joint child custody you have to apply for this etc. It's easier to marry to claim your rights as a father. As long as you don't try to leave her & your kid - that's quite easier, when you're not married ;-)

Solomonic, I would say.

Well my son is just coming up to 17 and we still haven't got around to getting married even with my accountant urging me too :-) Anyway:

- I have tax class 1 but its actually regarded as 1 1/2 as half of what the missus would get deducted, I get. When he was born I had to go to the Jugendamt (I believe it was that) and officially swear an oath (with my hand up) that I was the father. This gives me rights over him, up to a point

- Nope, you're not married but you can, like me, have life insurance and put her down as on the form to receive a percentage of it

- Nope, you're not married. My missus was covered by here fathers health care up to a certain age which also covered our sons. She now has here own which covers our son as well

- None

- I am not too sure the legal obligations to your child as such but as far as I can work out, I have to look after my son until he is either 25 or has left home. He is then obliged to look after me when I am 65 (which I constantly remind him of...) and retired

If you aren't married and you have a kid, she OWNS the kid. You have ZERO legal recourse (unless *maybe* she goes to jail). She controls EVERYTHING about the kids (effectively even visitation, WHICH you only get absurdly minimal rights if you agree to support her and the kid financially). Forget about the courts. The law clearly says they have complete custody unless they deign to let you have it or share it. And if you want to know what visitation rights get you (Umgangsrecht), it's so lame as to be useless. Plus she can just skip town, not tell anyone. This country is fine with that kind of thing. Germany is in clear violation of the EU laws about fairness in these matters, but they don't give a damn. Their equivalent of the Supreme Court Chief Justice even went so far as to say the EU Court of Human Rights decisions only impact the German Government, not the German courts.

It took some poor Turk, whose girlfriend gave up his child for adoption without telling him 10 years, 50 court trails including TWO appearances before the EU Court of Human Rights before the bozos in Germany finally gave him his kid.

Guys who don't get married in this country are fools unless one or the other of you is sterile. This is a HUGE issue, that I think too many people blow off as unimportant.

Until it happens to them.

And forget about gentleman's agreement. I had that with my German girlfriend, who all the while knew EXACTLY how she could control everything if it went sour and I had NOT A CLUE about this (they don't have this insanity in America).

Look, if you're going to have a child out of wedlock, your rights are minimal. She could decide to give up the child and without marriage, you have nothing to say about it. If she wants to keep the child, you'll probably be responsible for child support for the next 18-23 years (depending on how the laws change between now and then). And there is nothing you can do to make your voice heard because you failed to recognize the child by marrying the mother.
As a women, she has all of the rights and you're just the poor sap that supplied the sperm. You have to decide how much you want to be involved in the child's life. Then good luck convincing the woman of your God given right to be a father figure because frankly, that's all you have to stand on. Let's face it, the courts in every country lean to the woman's rights and you're just an afterthought when it comes to raising the child.
Oh and if she marries some other bloke and has another child, she will probably take you to court to raise your child support because now, she's raising two children, one of which isn't your DNA and the courts will probably give her more of your money to raise the second child even though she now has a husband to support her. You're screwed if you don't marry this woman. Good luck.

Hmm...if she lives alone and has the child there and you don't get married, she is entitled to ALG II, Elterngeld, and Kindergeld. If you live together and are over the age of 25, you are required to support her, although she would still receive her Elterngeld and Kindergeld.

I think you announce that you the father of the child and take responsibility for him, without having to be married. I've only seen this twice here so I'm not 100% sure.