Creditor suits from a U.S. credit card company

So I have found myself in quite the unfortunate situation. After a stupid decision to co-sign on a credit card, a ex has neglected paying and my family is now being contacted by a lawyer.

I am curious if I can be sued in Germany for a debt in America. Yes I know lawyers answer such questions, but seeing as I have yet to obtain residency and am therefore without income it is not a option. Any info helps.

The lawyers aid I spoke with said they will sue and if I am not in court they get a automatic judgement against me. But what does this mean for me in Germany?

I have no means to pay the amount they are demanding. Just trying to figure out what to look for in the upcoming events.

Thanks

S

is sued the right word,in the uk after a certain amount of time if they cant get you ,its written off i believe,or if you go to court you can arrange to pay small amounts.

She said they would file a law suit. I am unable to attend the court sessions, due to the fact I am here. I asked about setting up payments but they wanted a 1/3 down and a significant amount a month, that I have no way to pay. I know that the main person on the card, is unable, better unwilling to pay.

I believe what they do is sell the account to collectors and they are the ones who file suit.

But I don't know what that means for me here. Let alone if they can sue me, or rather prefer to blow smoke up my arse.

Depending on the amount, I doubt it would be worth the effort to pursue you in the German courts. More likely there'll be default judgement in the US and they will grab you on your next attempted re-entry to the USA. If you don't have residence in Germany you could find yourself stateless. A judgement against you in the USA may affect your ability to have long time residence or permission to stay here.

how long are you in germany and how much is owed?

I have been in Germany since the beginning of August, applied for residency early SEptember, but still don't have residency. They said they are backlogged.

The total amount is 4100 USD or 3194 E

It is a jewelry store credit line. I was stupid and cosigned. The other person is employed full time in Oregon. Don't know if that matters but gives you a better picture.

Why did you co-sign if you were not willing to pay when the other person failed to pay? That's the whole thing of co-signing.

they should go after him i would have thought,but dont forget a debt collection agency will make all sorts of threats,but theres little they can do.
also your debt is small compared to what others owe( me inc)...

I was obviously stupid and in a different situation at the time. Had I known he wasn't paying and they contacted me I would have made the monthly payments. But situations chnage and I have no means to pay 1/3 of the balance. If I could shit golden eggs I would, but peoples lives changes.

But like it or not you have a legal responsibility for the debt. If your life had changed, but you were still in the US and could not pay, what would happen to you? Where you are now is less relevant. They can get a default judgement in your absence and simply apply the judgement next time you enter American soil. A default judgement is not good on your record if any future employer (or the immigration authorities) do any personal checks back in the US as well they might. It will also affect your credit record in the US (but is unlikely to affect it here)

In regards to reentry I was under the impression they can only garnish if you are earning wages. Is that incorrect?

What would likely happen is they would let interest and fees accrue awhile so that it becomes worth their while to actually sue you, then do so, especially if they know they will be able to get a default judgment, and especially if the relevant state law permits them to charge you for some or all of their attorney fees. Then they would have to enforce the judgement, which could consist of finding assets of yours in the US and have them seized to satisfy your debt (if you have assets there and the relevant state law allows them to be seized) and if you do not pay after a certain period of time they can even have you called into court in the relevant jurisdiction there to explain what assets and income you have (Citation to discover assets, and if you do not show up). If your assets are in Germany and your income is from German sources they would have to get the judgment certified here (in which case it becomes a German judgement) but I am pretty sure you would definitely be charged for their attorney and collection fees as well the amount of the US judgment.

What I suggest is to consider negotiating with the collectors- they will probably take less than what they are demanding if they own the debt because they almost certainly paid far less for it than its face value. If they were merely hired on commission to collect the debt and the original creditor still actually owns the debt, it is probably a different story, so you need to find out who actually owns the debt by sending a validation letter asking them to confirm the debt. One potential negotiating tool you have is the ability to declare bankruptcy if the debt gets too big. They probably just want to resolve this thing quickly and get money, so . Make sure you deal with them in writing only and tell them in writing not to contact you at home (I would not tell them you are here in Germany).

Maybe others have more to add. Let me stress that this is simply my laymans opinion- it is not legal advice, is not warranted to be accurate and is not exhaustive, so it is only a starting point for further research. In a nutshell- nip this thing it the bud if you can before it gets really expensive.

Good luck...

You are young. It is very unwise to fuck up your credit record in the USA, especially when it is your home country. You have only been here in Germany 5 minutes so it would be madness to fear arrest on your next return home, and the inability to get a US mortgage for 20 years.

If you really really can't raise or borrow the cash here to make the payments, then you do exactly what countless kids of your age have always done. You borrow from parents (if alive), or siblings or old friends to get this thing settled. It sucks, it is embarrassing, it hurts, but that is what you do.

If you don't have a single person in the world that can bail you out to the tune of $4,000 then you have been hanging out with some real losers your whole life. In fact you only need $1,333 (1/3rd) to get the ball rolling.

Shit happens, now deal with it.

I don't have any resources, or else I would have utilized them. But I think this stuff about getting arrested over debt is a load of shit mind my french. No one in America gets arrested ever debt. WTF? What I known the US you get a judgement they still have to get a lien when deemed uncollectible they can do nothing as I have nothing and grew up and the lowest levels of poverty. Both parents are disabled, and no one will hand me 4100 so it sits their till it falls of your credit. Correct me if I am wrong, but thats what happened to my mom on a car loan. She even worked for the government at the time and they didn't garnish.

I was only curious what in turn happens when you are oversea. But this info about being arrested or stateless cannot be right. Do you know how many americans have judgments and foreclosures we would all be in jail. Where is the logic? Being a debtor is not a crime in america like here it mainly jacks your credit.

That said. I am not condoning nor saying it is smart to fucks ones credit.

Seeing as I am currently living on a whim and a prayer, and my husband is in between jobs. We actually have no income and are living on the little amount I have not even the 1/3. And my friends and family are just as poor as most Americans and thousands of dollars in debt.

I looked into bankruptcy but was told you cannot do it when you are not there to go to court. In addition it costs over 1000 in Oregon, so I would just pay the damn thing then.

Consumer credit, yeah nope they refuse to work with them.

I really ahve tried to figure it out, just running out of options here.

If you ask a question in a forum like this, you will get (you hope!) an answer or an opinion. If many people answer with a similar response you get a majority, so there is a tendency towards accuracy of the provided answers. If you don't like the majority answer or opinion, or think you know better, then maybe you could ask elsewhere - maybe you'll get an answer you like more, but I doubt it!

Alternatively consult a lawyer, at least then you may be able to sue him if the answer he provides is not correct.

I have appreciated everyone opinions, But one is also open to debate as well. I would enjoy some resources to know where you have gotten your information, as I do not find such information online. I also noted responses that said the opposite.

If you could let me know where to look, that would be great.

However, I d have the right to believe, seeing as I am not Osama Bin Laden, that I will not be detained.

I have seen plantyof nasty collections and neve once has anyone I known gone to jail. Perhaps it is different when one is a resident overseas. If so all I ask is to see where this is stated.

Everyone is entitled to opinions and I have never attacked a person, but disagreed with a theory. No need to get butthurt over it.

This is getting silly. Follow the logic.

You wanna know the downside if you cannot pay?

But you are also stating that 100% there is NO WAY you can pay at all. Not even a 1/3rd. Not even a negotiated amount.

On which basis, you had better just forget the whole thing and move on 'cos if you can't pay anything, it doesn't matter if the penalty involves dipping you in burning oil does it?

You can't pay so that's the end of the discussion. Full Stop.

I did just quickly read this opinion on Wazzopedia:


I do think there is indeed a possibility that you could end up "in the system" regardless of the actual scale of your crime. I assume in the USA you can get warrants for non-payment of parking tickets? Ignore these and same shit could happen. We all know that US Immigration is pretty damn sharp, and I can just imagine what happens when your passport is scanned on arrival if there are outstanding warrants for your arrest.

Maybe you can take a job, Serenajean1, and pay the thing instead of wasting time posting here.

Thanks for the info Johnny.

I am hoping to get a job here and perhaps with a move to west Germany will have better lick. At which point I of course in tend to pay.

Remember. There is no "East" and "West" Germany. We are all just one big happy economic family.

To the OP- you may recall that I mentioned the Citation to Discover Assets in my previous post. If you do not show up for this, you can be put in jail until you tell them what assets you have, how much money you make, etc., or (I would think) alternatively, you pay the judgment in full, although of you are not in the US, you obviously will not be tossed into jail there. If the US judgment is converted to a German judgment, it is possible that there is a similar procedure here (hopefully sarabyrd or a native- born German can answer that).

No, US immigration will not detain you for having a civil debt- they will not even be aware of it since it will be a state matter, not a federal one. Not that one hand of the Feds knows what the other is doing anyway...

BTW, US judgments accrue interest, and I would think it is the same here.

Thank you for the info. Yes I do recall that. I have given my mothers address so that I get copies of any legal documents. Do you know what options people have when unable to attend such hearing. Can alternate arrangements be made. I have no assets in the US, rather at all. The only things I have are exempt. I found that much info online.

AFAIK, the only alternate arrangements you can make are with the creditor or their representative, and you want to do that before they file a civil suit against you, especially given that interest and fees are probably piling up on you.

You may not have any assets now, but you probably will in the future, and, of course, you do not want your wages garnished.

One thing about a lawsuit- you must be served properly. However, your state may consider serving you at your parents address to be proper service rather than you being served personally in Germany. Germany may or may not see it that way, and they may simply view it as a US matter and thus be less concerned about the service process (I do not know either way).

If you try to negotiate with them, you can offer less than what they are demanding. They will probably make a counter-offer, so offer what you can.

Do you have any of the jewelry that you could sell to pay part of this debt?

If you show you are attempting to work with the company anyway you can, it could very well avoid a lawsuit. Even though you think it is not right for you to pay this bill, it could save you thousands in the long run in interest just by keeping a good credit rating should you decide to purchase a house in the US one day.

Keep in contact with the creditor, explaining your story truthfully, and offering what little you can goes a long way. Plus they will push harder to get the money from the other guy who is at hand.

Thank you guys for the ideas. I wish I had the jewelry, but it is in the position of the primary card holder.

I have been very nice and returned all calls.

I would be more than willing to arrange payments. But they will only do the large lump down.

First of all the law which applies to you, is very specifically American. So while opinions of residents of other English speaking countries are nice, from a legal standpoint they mean nothing here and most of what has been written above won't apply in your case. From my experience, for the amount in question, if you have an overseas address no credit card company will take you to court, they will write your credit off as defaulted. Additionally, with a non US address, credit card companies are extremely limited in the amount of damage they can do to your credit.

Once I had a collection agency calling me for a credit card bill that was late and they were being abusive, so I just called the original issuer, who told me, first of all we can't do anything to your credit because you have a non US address, but you should still pay. So I told them I would pay them and to have the collection agency stop contacting me because they were being abusive. I didn't know at the time, but they were in violation of the Fair Debt Collection Act (most collection agencies Standard Operating Proedure is often in violation of this Act) So I guess AMEX took them off the case, because I never heard from them again, and i paid them over nine months. They didn't do anything to my credit, but I have never found it written anywhere that it is impossible to give you negative credit just because you reside overseas. However, if your debt holder doesn't have a US address for you, you are better off.

You need to read the texts of the
The Fair Credit Reporting Act, Fair Credit Billing Act, and The Fair Debt Collection Practices Act; all of which can be found online by a simple google search.

If you don't want the collection agnecy calling you anymore, you should specifically note that if you dispute the claim in writing, they are forbidden to contact you anymore. They are also forbidden to call you outside of certain hours. Be aware that a lot of what they are doing is just intimidation, smoke and mirrors, they are under no obligation to inform you of your rights or options. If a guy calls you at midnight send one fax and he will be off the case.

In any event, if you want to make a deal, try to call the original debt holder, collection agencies are often unreasonable. But in the event they do cut you a deal, it will have a double edged bite to it. If they write off a portion of the debt, you will be taxed on the full amount of the writeoff as income and in the event yo udon't pay the debt in full, to the extent they are able, the will give you negative credit.

The best strategy here is to pay them something every month, even if it is less than thye are asking. If you are paying they are less likely to put you into default which means they write off the loan as uncollectable. I guess if you are in the US they could garnish your wages, income tax refunds, etc but for this small amount you probably won't see any legal action. Just remember that if you want to pay in full, don't accept any deals to pay a smaller amount, because that can reflect negatively on your credit.

If you do the searches I gave you, you will get a lot more useful information. Also read the complete text of those acts and you will find more information that applies specifically to your case. For example,if a credit card company refuses to correctly change your billing address after you request it in writing at the address indicated on the bill, then you are no longer liable to pay and neither interest nor penalties can accrue until the change has been made. That applies to credit card companies, but I'm not sure about your loan. In fact, since many US based companies are unable to correctly enter a foreign address into their computer system, writing this letter can help get many people who have problems with credit card debts back into good standing.

One more example, in 2001 i couldn't figure out why my student loan billing was so screwed up, I had been automatically paying from my US bank account, but then for some reason it stopped and i didn't know because I wasn't getting any bills. When they finally contacted me 4 months later they said i was about to go into default. So after I figured out what happened and looked at all my records, I said the last bill i got was in December 1999, maybe you have a Y2K bug, or fixed Y2K bugs and then when you reentered the data you screwed up my address so i couldn't get your mail anymore. She didn't say anything for a minute then just said, OK, we will fix all the bad credit and start billing you again like nothing happened. So I guess that was what really happened.

Good Luck

They will not simply refrain from reporting the issue to the credit bureaus in the US just because you are overseas (and the OP posted that they do not know that she is). Furthermore, interest and other charges will pile up so much at some point that it does make sense for them to get a judgment against her (especially if they think she is still in the US). That US judgment can be certified here in Germany (unless it violates German public policy) and become a US judgment, and if it is large enough, there will be every incentive to do that.

Other than that, I think Kerbouchard made some excellent points.

They do know I am overseas. They just have a US mailing address for me. I have not since heard anything. I asked how I could make payments, if I wanted to pay monthly as a good faith effort even without meeting their requirements. They told me they will not take payments. They only want 1/3 down and 400 a month direct from my bank account. I don't understand as I have had collections in the past where they at least took what they could get. I read online that this is one of the worst agencies and that you should not even talk to them.

Update: It is reporting as delinquent on my credit report, also the original creditor says it is sold and will not accept payments either

I would at least like to be able to send something a month so I don't look like a total douche. I just don't comprehend why they would refuse payments.

SJ, I think we would all agree with you that they should take payments, as a matter of law they do not have to, and if you have had delinquent accounts get turned over to collection agencies before, that makes you seem less likely to carry out your end of the bargain. I doubt that a collection agency will simply write this one off. How much is owed now with interest?

I know someone who defaulted on a US government student loan many years ago, and has traveled back and forth to the States several times with no consequences. AFAIK, debt cannot be criminally prosecuted. And I definitely don't believe the government is together enough to list this stuff on immigration entry and exit computers, and again, AFAIK, nor would they anyway, as it is not a criminal act.

I speak from experience (when using an overseas address), however, yours may be different.

In any event, read this
http://www.bankrate.com/brm/news/debt/20031107a1.asp

and this:
http://www.bankrate.com/brm/news/bankruptc...asp?prodtype=cc

It confirms some of what i said and gives some similar recommendations. But I remember reading about the deals you can make with collection agencies. If you pay 50% on the dollar, your credit report will say that this is what happened and that is worse than saying you were late but paid it all. Lenders want a client who will pay everything back + interest.

If you've had any experience at all with going to court, you will know that $4000 will quickly be eaten up by legal expenses and time in preparing the case, so while there is some small chance you could find yourself in that situation, most likely you could send somebody to court for you and the judge will give you a payment plan. The collection agency knows how much it will cost and will probably assume you won't show up for court, so they will most likely accept the amount you can offer/can afford to pay before taking you to court (assuming you won't show) to get the smaller amount they will get after paying legal costs. Similarly, the first thing a lawyer in this type of situation will do is try to determine how much they can actually get from you if they win a settlement, so if they learn you have nothing, this possibility is even more remote.

In any event, if you are worried about legal action, all your communications with them should be in writing. They won't be likely to take you to court when you can prove you offered to pay the whole amount back over time.

I actually did not post from my own experience, rather from that of others and other sources. The only reason I can think of as to why an overdue debt would not be reported is that the debtor can ask to have it removed as stale if it has been in their credit report for seven years.

Again, do not ignore the effects of interest accumulating on the oustanding debt or on a default judgment.

Leeza is correct- debt such as that of the OP is a civil matter, not criminal, and the US government could not in a million years have its act together to determine upon entry that anyone has an oustanding debt or judgement against them.

Living overseas is not exactly the same as having an overseas address on your bill, yet you use them interchangebly in your posts. Reporting a late debt is different from having it appear on your credit report and i didn't say that it was impossible to do just taht some companies can't/don't do it. In fact the US government has enough info on their screen when you go through customs to uniquely identify your credit history if they should choose to do so. I once ate dinner with a guy who told me exactly how much information they have access to, because his company developed the software to tie together all the databases. In any event, I can assure you that everything i've posted in this thread, is verified through personal experiences and validation by reading my credit reports. Credit problems are important events and i wouldn't want to mislead anybody by posting suppositions.

It seems that Kerbouchard did not understand some of what I posted- no matter, though, and his experience may be quite different from that of the OP- different creditor, differing amounts of debt, etc., so it may only be of limited utility.

As far as the US government having enough info to go through a credit file, I have no idea if this is true or not; however, it would seem to requiring knowing a SSN, and can a SSN be used by immigration and customs officers, and can they legally access your credit file?

Without intending to be rude there doesn't seem to be much helpful or practical coming out of this thread and rather a lot of moralising.
The fact is you have a debt in the US (or wherever) and you can't pay it. In one of the posts I read that so far your creditors only have a stateside address.
You can do one of two things: you can either tell them voluntarily your present address and continue the correspondence or you can continue to let them believe you're in the US. The first option would be morally right but strategically stupid. Remember, you can't pay. Taking a moral stand won't affect your ability to pay.
The second option: could you pay if you were in the US? You can't get to a court hearing in any event so how can you affect the outcome. Even if you were in the US and could get to the hearing, if you can't pay that also won't affect the judgement. Let them believe you're in the US, it changes nothing. Eventually the credit card company or bank will sell your debt to other collectors but eventually even they will simply give up. Time and distance is a great healer.

Let's assume the debt follows you here and it can be enforced in a German court, which I doubt. The system is slow, ponderous and reluctant to take hard action. You'd be irritated from time to time by Bailiffs who'd rather find you not in, so they can continue to collect payments from the courts for their poor use of word processing equipment and driving around the countryside. Let's assume you encounter a "jobsworth" Bailiff. You still can't pay! We can only deal with reality and you can either pay or you can't. If you pay, even in dribbles, you can end up increasing this silly debt enormously by the the collective charges that the "debt industry" will levy. Again, make no mistake, debt collection is an industry like any other and they like nothing better than dealing with people who are cowed and frightened. They've nothing againts you personally, they just like the game to be played by their rules.

If you can't pay, at the very worst you'd declare that fact to a court which in effect puts you under their protection. The negative implication is the result this will have on your credit worthiness here. It won't be very good, but not so bad that you can't live.

The aspects you need to consider: what affect will this have on my status in Germany? If you're not registered then you need to be careful as you don't want something trifling like this to imperil the chance of you changing that status. What affect will this have on my status in the US? Not a good one during the next few years but that only matters if you intend to return during that time.

My advise for what it's worth. Write to them via your US address. Tell them you acknowledge the debt but are not now and will not be in the foreseeable future in a position to pay it in full. Work out what you could afford, even if it's not much, say $500, and tell them you're willing to pay that amount but only on the condition that the debt is thereby fully settled. Otherwise you can't pay anything. Be very clear that this is their only shot. It may bring nothing, but it may cause the problem to go away and is worth trying.

Be positive. People who've managed their money much less capably than you have, i.e. banks, insurance companies and financial advisors, despite our cries of protest for the last 10 years, have got themselves into such a mess that they imperil our economies, and as a reward are being bailed out by goverments to the tune of billions. Nobody's asking them to pay back their salaries or self-awarded bonuses for this mismanagement so why should you be penalised for a simple error of judgement? The amount is not even the cigar bill for the directors of some of these companies. Be positive but firm. Best of luck.
If you need any information PM me.

Serenajean, I had a similar situation while living in Germany. I had divorced and sold out my half of our shared car to my ex. However, I didn't think to get the my name off the loan. So of course, ex got into some kind of financial straits and stopped paying on the car. The bank tracked down my parents, who held on to my mail while I was in Germany until I came home for visits. So by the time I found out the bank was looking for money from me, the whole situation was probably 6 months old. I phoned the bank, explained the situation, said I was living in Germany and had no intention of paying anything on that car. They said the only way I could be taken off the loan was if I could convince my ex to go to the bank and complete the paperwork, which of course he was never going to do. I also wrote the bank a letter, stating the situation, and wrote a letter to the big three credit scoring companies, for them to keep on file. The whole thing compromised my credit score a little bit for awhile, but by the time I moved back to the States, it had no effect on my getting car loans, mortgages, etc. Obviously a stupid, naive thing to do, not thinking of the car loan, but it worked out all right in the end.

Mind you, I moved back to the US at a time when a good credit score was like gold, and people were practically throwing money at us. I don't know if we'd have more of a problem now that credit is tighter.

(The other thing the ex did was to move to another state, register the car in both our names, even though we were no longer married and I was by that time married to someone else, not buy mandatory auto insurance, and proceed to commit a hit-and-run in the car. So the other state tracked me down via my parents again, trying to recover damages from me for the accident. Again, I explained what had happened, complained that there is no way my ex-husband should have been able to register a car in my name in a state I didn't live in, and said I lived out of country and had no intention of paying. The state DMV said I would not be allowed to register another car in their state for a couple of years, and that was the end of it.)

Hi SerenaJean,

my sympathies on your situation.

JohnnyEnglish, will you quit scaremongering already? If you actually had some worthwhile info to distribute along with your tired platitudes and sanctimonious statements, I might have left this thread alone. But, Jesus! Not everyone (ha! more like "hardly anyone") can appeal to Mummsy and Daddsy, Muffy or Buffy and instantly get the money they need. And not having these "resources" available doesn't make them "losers." May I remind you that this is not a debt she ran up and defaulted on herself? This is the work of a different individual, and she didn't do anything wrong here - however unwise it is in hindsight to have co-signed for the card.

SerenaJean, I suggest you go to the consumer rights website/blog http://www.Consumerist.com . Do a search on "debt collection" or "credit card debt" and you will probably find some useful posts about how to handle creditors, and what rights you have as a debtor (you do most certainly have rights!). Just because you co-signed does not mean you should be the only one paying back this debt, particularly if the ex is employed and living in the US, and you are not. In fact, it makes considerably more sense for the creditors to go after him, since enforcing a judgement against you would cost them more time, hassle and money because you are living in a different country.

I am not an attorney, but it is HIGHLY UNLIKELY that anyone is going to arrest you the minute you pass through passport control upon re-entering the US. The records system that tracks entry information is separate from the credit reporting system, and the US government, as far as I know, does not make a habit of regularly handing over lists of debtors reentering the country. Although, it's certainly possible that the creditors/credit report bureaus could access that info upon request.

Not to sound flippant or anything, but in order for them to enforce any garnishment of wages, they have to find out where you are living in the United States, serve you with the appropriate court papers, and follow judicial processes to do so. I'm not even sure they'd have any right to garnish wages earned in Germany - and if they do, the cost of enforcing that would far outweigh the money they'd gain back.

By the way, here's another consumer-rights oriented blog I follow, run by a Minnesota lawyer who specializes in defending people against fraudulent debt collection practices (i.e. when a company tries to collect a debt that is expired, was never owed in the first place, or when that company uses abusive and illegal practices to try and collect a valid debt):

http://caveatemptorblog.com/

Keep in mind that debt collection practices and regulations vary from state to state, but Sam Glover, the lawyer running Caveat Emptor, may be able to give you a few general tips, or by searching you might find them in his previous posts.

Having had to deal more than once with evil debt collectors myself (I say evil because they were using methods I later discovered were illegal to coerce me into paying a debt that I never owed), I know how stressful and disheartening this can be. PM me if you need some more help, and I'll see if I can think of anything else.

Good luck!
nomadin

There is no SSN on your US passport is there? The computers at the airports that check the passports do not have access to your
Credit details, nor is there any such connection to any DB that does. Having outstanding debt. is not a reason for detainment and denial
of entry into the US (Not yet atleast)..

If it were all true, how many Americans would be denied reentry into the US upon returning from their trips abroad..

Unless you are a terrorist, convicted murderer on the run, etc. etc. they won't deny your entry. Doe the Govt. have access
to your credit details? Sure they do, but those details are not used to deny entry in the US, and Deff. not used at all by Customs/Border
control systems.

I have no clue about debt collection in the USA nor debt laws over there. But, if I understood correctly, the debt was fully bought by the collector, why whould the collector accept a very small amount? Their bussiness is getting the full debt plus collection fees.

Not being able to pay your debts is not a criminal offense. It will not get you arrested or denied entry into the US or anything like that. If they get a judgement against you, they will try to go after your assets if you have any. If you have no assets in the US and they know you are in Germany, they can try to get a judgement against you in Germany. I really doubt they will bother do that for a debt of only $4,000

It is often possible to make deals with creditors. If you contact them and tell them that you own nothing so there is no point in going after you but because you are a decent person, you do want to make some sort of deal with them, they will take something over nothing every time. You can make them an offer of how much you want to pay right now, what kind of interest rates you can live with or what kind of payment plan and see what they say.

The original creditor looks at the debt of $4,000, realizes they might not be able to collect on it and it will cost them money trying. They then sell the debt to a collection agency for less money, maybe 2,000. The collection agency will collect what they can and write off what they can't and try to end up in profit. There is a limit to how far they will go to try to collect a relatively small debt from a person who has nothing. It's more cost for them and nothing to gain since you can't squeeze blood from a rock.

DK, it was phrased that way to help Kerbouchard see why that cannot be so.

Since Sept. 11, 2001 the US government has gone to great lengths to make data that was previously widely dispersed, centrally located and accessible in order to aid in the fight against terrorism. And if you've followed the news, things that "cannot be so" such as unauthorized phone taps, have happened regularly during this period. Regarding customs, two examples. Once going through customs they asked me my soc sec and driver's license number to verify i was really the person named on the passport. Secondly, previously, using a dead person's credentials was a good way to generate a new ID, nowadays it would be flagged immediately. This was illustrated in the recent, nationally publicized case of a US citizen who was caught using the ID of a dead person when returning from Canada. He had been doing so periodically over the last twenty years, but was only caught on his most recent attempt, presumably due to new law enforcement/immigration data access capabilities

The wiretap example is a poor analogy because the sole differentating factor in such a case is the relevant legal framework (or lack thereof) rather than technical or organizational obstacles (which a unified government database of the sort you describe would face) in addition to the issue of legality, which is also a serious one here.

I have a hard time believing customs would have instant access not only to your SSN number (issued at the federal level) but also to your driver's license number (issued at the state level) with a related question being if there is a unique identifier for each state's license number in order to ascertain which state issued it (a must in verifying identity via your license). Furthermore, efforts to keep a potential or actual terrorist from entering the US cannot rely solely on a database containing information appropriate for most US citizens or residents but not likely to be on file for those not previously or currently resident in the US (e.g., driver's license and credit files).

Finally, a guy using the same ID for 20 years is bound to attract red flags- passports expire after 10, and driver's licenses after even shorter periods of time. Maybe he was suspicious for some reason other than this putative database and got tripped up that way.

If the Feds had such a great relational database, there would not be discrepancies with things like the no-fly list. You assume too much competence on their part.

If you have something more than anecdotal information, Kerbouchard, I would be interested in looking at it.

Conq, next time you submit an application to renew a US passport, you will be required to provide a fingerprint and a soc sec. If you require additional evidence download the application form

Customs does not issue passports.

And the access to that data is tightly controlled. Do you really think there are going to give the avg. braindead TSA agents at the airports
access to this Info.? Do you really think ever Immigration PC at those checkout lines have access to this info.? No they don't, for one
thing the PCs are in a public/unsecured area.. Some PCs in the back office might have access to this info., but unless you get pulled
aside for further checks, they aren't going to pull up this info.

Even if they do have access to your SSN, I doubt highly they have access to your credit history, at those counters as well.

Also, Don't confuse the 2 ICE depts. (U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement), they may have the same home office
but they do 2 different jobs.

"Customs does not issue passports"
-- Amazing, i think i am out of my depth.

Well we are far off the original topic. But I have confused nothing. You are both assuming all sorts of things.

Perhaps because some of us might have some inside info.