BattalionBoy
Nov 17 2008, 11:45 am
An independent apartment (own front door and lock) rented with a lease and the owner rings the door bell several times and then tries to enter the apartment by attempting to unlock the front door.
The owner doesn’t inform the tenant of this occurrence before or after the event.
Any experiences with this?
Isn’t the landlord breaking the law?
What steps should be taken by the tenant?
Janx Spirit
Nov 17 2008, 11:54 am
QUOTE
An independent apartment (own front door and lock) rented with a lease and the owner rings the door bell several times and then tries to enter the apartment by attempting to unlock the front door.
Illegal, he shouldn't even have a key, unless you gave him one and express permission to enter the apartment in case of danger.
QUOTE
The owner doesn’t inform the tenant of this occurrence before or after the event.
Illegal. 24 hours notice before hand is required.
QUOTE
Any experiences with this?
Yes
QUOTE
Isn’t the landlord breaking the law?
Yes. "Hausfriedensbruch"
QUOTE
Ein Mietwohnungseigentümer hat nicht das Recht, die Räumlichkeiten des Mieters ohne dessen ausdrückliches Einverständnis heimlich zu betreten. Rechtlich gesehen ist dies nicht nur ein unzulässiger Eingriff in die Privatsphäre des Mieters, sondern laut Strafgesetzbuch eine Straftat. Sie kann sogar mit Gefängnis bestraft werden.
http://www.immowelt.de/Recht/Mietrecht/ind...n_hausfriedensbQUOTE
What steps should be taken by the tenant?
It depends on the relationship to the landlord. Warn him, take him to court, inform the police etc...
kent_73
Nov 17 2008, 12:12 pm
I'm currently renting an apartment which before I moved in, was not told that the bathroom is to be renovated. Fair enough, there's an almost complete new bathroom there, but it meant I had no shower for 3 weeks (instead I used the one at the gym opposite). During this time I'd come back from work and there'd be still a few workmen in the flat sorting out the bathroom.
One morning I was in the shower and I heard the landlord come into the flat, then go back out again. A few days later, when I saw him in the evening, he complained to me that I had not wiped down the water in the shower after I used it. WTF!? I told him never to enter the flat without my permission and that he shouldn't complain because I had no prior warning that I would be without a shower for 3 weeks. It was something along the lines of 'shut the fuck up'. Now after reading this, I understand that what he did could be illegal? Sounds like a similar situation to yous, BB. I already have Rechtsversicherung.
meikeerik
Nov 17 2008, 12:28 pm
Kent- you should have also have reduced your rent for the three weeks the bathroom was not usable. According to this you reduce your rent by 33% for the days that you couldn't use the shower.
http://www.bild.de/BILD/ratgeber/geld-karr...ch-kuerzen.html
marie-claire
Nov 17 2008, 12:48 pm
QUOTE (BattalionBoy @ Nov 17 2008, 11:45 am)

What steps should be taken by the tenant?
Inform the landlord that any further attempt by him to enter the apartment without permission will have legal consequences. (Make sure you mentioning the law about trespassing/
Hausfriedensbruch)
If he actually enters your apartment you can cancel your rental contract without notice.
QUOTE
Urteil: Unbefugt die Wohnung inspiziert, erlaubt fristlosen Auszug. Ein Mieter darf den Mietvertrag fristlos kündigen, wenn der Vermieter, ohne die Zustimmung dazu bekommen zu haben, dessen Räume mit einem - zu Mietbeginn unberechtigt zurückbehaltenen - Schlüssel betreten hat. Denn es ist "Hauptpflicht des Vermieters, dem Mieter den Mietgegenstand zum alleinigen Gebrauch zu überlassen". Ausnahmen gelten nur für den Fall, dass ein "zwingender Grund vorliegt und der Mieter nicht zu erreichen ist". (Oberlandesgericht Celle, 13 U 182/06)
kent_73
Nov 17 2008, 4:40 pm
QUOTE (meikeerik @ Nov 17 2008, 12:28 pm)

Kent- you should have also have reduced your rent for the three weeks the bathroom was not usable. According to this you reduce your rent by 33% for the days that you couldn't use the shower.
http://www.bild.de/BILD/ratgeber/geld-karr...ch-kuerzen.htmlThanks for that link. Rather than quote something from the Bild though, are there any legal websites which state this also? Looks like I could save myself a few hundred euros then, if this calculation is right.
Darkknight
Nov 17 2008, 5:01 pm
Websites.. I'm sure there are many, but you best bet is a trip to the Mieterverine..
meikeerik
Nov 17 2008, 6:37 pm
http://www.mietrecht-information.de/Mietmi...nne-Dusche.htmlhttp://www.mieter-themen.de/article201.htmlhttp://www.wohnung.net/mietrecht/topic,959...ung-wegen-.htmlHere you go. These actually quote the Amtgericht Köln decision for this.
Mieterverein is always a good option though you have to join. I would start by printing out a few of these websites and writing a official letter with the calculation in it for the reduced rent simply informing your landlord of the fact that you are indeed reducing the rent. Make sure you send it per Einschreiben. If he gives you trouble you can always join the Mieterverein then.
You can also order a brochure on the topic here:
http://www.mieterbund.de/urteile_in_stichw...&sword_list[]=mietminderung
kent_73
Nov 17 2008, 6:48 pm
Thanks. I'm not part of a
Mieterverein because after looking further into it, I was advised by a few people not to join if I already had Rechtsversicherung...
The Landlord has not responded to my e-mail yet. Don't really want any confrontation but don't want to be taken for a ride either. I calculated about €180 reduction (from €793 warm) was about fair for 3 weeks without shower. That reduction doesn't include him letting himself into my flat when I was already there taking a shower
sarabyrd
Nov 18 2008, 7:36 am
Change the lock. Keep the old one plus keys to replace it when you leave.
kent_73
Nov 18 2008, 10:32 am
Thanks but the lock will stay for now- I just want to warn him.
In any case, I'm still wondering whether it is worth it (and if I'm really in the right to do so) to ask for some rebate for the month where I had several weeks without a shower in the bathroom. Anyone had any previous experience with asking landlords for a rebate/reduction on rent?
Darkknight
Nov 18 2008, 2:12 pm
You don't "Ask", you calculate the cost as the above poster has, and withhold part of the rent until the problem is fixed.
Make sure you write a letter to the LL, stating the problem and that your withholding part of the rent $.
pog451
Nov 19 2008, 12:40 pm
Youa lso do it immediately, as recompense for non.avaialable amenities, and not after the fact as a "punishment". Ie. You dont have a shower this month, you you reduce the rent this month, at most next month.
andy M
kent_73
Nov 19 2008, 1:16 pm
My situation was it wasn't ready to use till end of October, so I had to calculate the reduction of rent anyway (not trying to make it look like punishment). So I'll be taking it off this next payment.
kent_73
Nov 22 2008, 1:27 pm
Okay, so I calculated a discount of about €185 (3 weeks without shower at 33%). The landlord told me after I wrote him an email explaining that I had signed the contract on the 17.09 and in this contract it explains that I will not make a renting reduction, if they will install a new shower for me without me paying costs. They wrote that it was my wish to have a new shower because I was too large for the other one, which was under sloping roof. I am 1.86m tall. The previous tenant was there for 11 years, so the shower needed renovating anyway, but I was led to believe the renovation had nothing to do with me as it needed doing anyway.
I need to read the contract to verify this, but I wasn't told of this originally (could be a problem then...). They originally told me that the new shower would be ready for when I move in once the previous tenant moves out in the middle of September, in order for them to have 2 weeks max for renovation. However on the 18.09 (one day after the contract was signed) they told me via email that unfortunately the previous tenant was to move out the day before I move in and so renovation would start after I already moved in.
The landlord went on to say that if I should make a renting reduction they will "werden wir den Fehlbetrag gerichtlich einklagen." (we will legally complain against the deficit).
Any ideas where I stand with this?
Lavender Rain
Nov 22 2008, 1:32 pm
Prior to moving in I changed the locks on my door. There's no law that says the landlord has to have a key. I told her she was not getting a key and it was not negotiable.
Darkknight
Nov 22 2008, 2:01 pm
QUOTE
Any ideas where I stand with this?
Next time READ the contract before signing it. If you don't speak German than you should have gotten help in understanding it.
Not understanding the contract is not an excuse, and will not protect you in a court of law. If you didn't understand it you should
not have signed it..
Now that you have, there are only 2 things you can do.
1. GET SOMEBODY TO TRANSLATE THE CONTRACT FOR YOU, so you can understand what you signed...
2. If there are problems or discrepancys between what is in the contract and what is going on then you need to contact
the Mieterverine ASAP. They will however not help you for problems that were stated in the contract but for which you
didn't understand. They will just tell you what I've already stated..
kent_73
Nov 22 2008, 4:01 pm
They told me beforehand the shower would be ready before I move in. Then the day after the contract was signed they contradicted what was discussed, and so I was without a shower when I moved in for 3 weeks. I signed it on the assumption, and as we discussed, that everything would be ready.
They also came into my flat without my consent when I was there, which was quite strange.
QUOTE (kent_73 @ Nov 22 2008, 1:27 pm)

I need to read the contract to verify this, but I wasn't told of this originally (could be a problem then...).
It doesn't matter what they did or didn't tell you - what counts is what you signed, so you really need to read that contract or get someone to translate it for you.
kent_73
Nov 22 2008, 4:35 pm
Yes you're right so I'll re-read it when I'm back home. I'll also check to see if they are alllowed to access my flat when I'm there, as I still don't know where I stand with that.
Darkknight
Nov 22 2008, 5:27 pm
All your problems can be explained/fixed with one trip to the Mieterverine...
Pay the 60 Eur per Year, and just go...
kent_73
Nov 24 2008, 9:44 am
Yes I will call the insurance company today as it's not clear where I stand.
I wrote the landlord an email after checking the contract. He's written at the end of the contract that all this would take place 'Anfang Oktober' but there was a delay and the renovation started from the 6th and I had no shower till the 31st in the flat. It does say that I wouldn't reduce the rent, but this was agreed because it was Anfang Oktober and not the entire month. Komisch.
sarabyrd
Nov 26 2008, 3:09 pm
Regarding the entry without permission
QUOTE (sarabyrd @ Nov 26 2008, 2:05 pm)

German judgesThe landlord is only entitled to a key if the tenant agrees. If the landlord enters the rented premises without the tenant's permission even if he is in legal possession of the key the tenant may immediately terminate the lease for cause as the landlord's act is considered illegal entry.
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