Working illegally in Germany (Schwarzarbeit)

Hey guys,

is hiring illegal employees is as popular here as it is back in America?

I'm looking for some work in a restaurant, anything from washing dishes to waiting tables or working the bar. I have an au-pair visa and can not get a working visa on top of that, but would like a second income.

Might any bars or restaurants give me a break and use my help in their kitchen - off the books - or can this never happen in Germany?

Is that common in the states? Not at any place I ever worked. I think it is more common here.

The only jobs I know of that are 'under the table' are generally cleaning jobs.

There's an awful lot of "Schwarzarbeit" particularly in the building trade. Restaurants do get checked from time to time to try an catch people working illegally, so I'd be careful if I were you.

What's the penalty if you get caught working illegally? Do they send you back to where you came from?

If you have broken the terms of your visa and are found out then my understanding is you would be deported. Happened to several acquaintances of mine in London and I understand Germany is stricter than the UK.

There is of course absolutely no cash-in-hand part-time work in the Munich catering trade because although it is beneficial to both the employer and employee, the federal government and their gougers in the Kassen would lose out, and that would never do, would it?

*cough*

Do bear in mind that the authorities are just as keen on cracking down ion illegal workers from English-speaking countries as elsewhere and they have raided certain known premises in the past.

Hi!

I wonder what will be the repercussions on a german company if it uses black labour and the authorities will find out.

Anybody here who knows?

Topics merged by admin

OK, so you simply did a direct translation of "Schwarzarbeit". Of course there's different types of illegal work, depending on exactly which law you are breaking. The punishments will presumably vary depending on the crime, but all of them are higher than just paying the costs like everyone else.

I know a bar that took on Polish labour (one barmaid) thinking that as new EU members they were ok for general employment. WRONG! Got found out and are currently fighting a €10,000 fine. More grey labour than black, but nonetheless punitive.

Hi, the fines on "Schwarzarbeit" in Germany vary between 5,000€ and 30,000€ depending on where it takes place.

As STB says, "Schwarzarbeit" can be various things:

Employment of someone without a work permit, employing someone with a work permit for cash, employing someone claiming social security for cash.

I agree, in my experience it's very common in the gastro industry.
You should have no problem working under the table for one of the many small restaurants and bars bere*

*not to say I condone such behaviour

Schwarzarbeit is also very popular in the building industry... If done on a larger scale by employers of any kind, it can also mean going to jail when they get caught as far as I know...

I'm refering to employment of someone without a work permit.

Any ideea what will be the repercussions also for the employee in this case?

Thanks!

from my limited friends experience the private cleaning sector means usually cash in hand if someone insists on a contract forget it because after the taxes you will be left with nothing the other stuff is to risky really

I am a student and I don't have a work permit. I got busted once for helping out at my cousin's restaurant. The Bundesgrenzschutz came in, in full uniform (the puffy green ones one sometimes sees at the train station), with guns. There was like five or six of them. They checked all the exists, all the bathrooms, upstairs and everywhere someone could hide. If they come there really is no way you are going to get away. To cut a long story short, I got a €5 precautionary fine and my cousin got a €15 precautionary fine. But this might not be the case, you're basically at the official who reviews your case's whim. I made it absolutely clear this was one off, that the girl that normally works the bar was sick and that I wasn't getting paid. Plus my cousins lawyer wrote to them about it. The letter I got said the normal fine would be like four grand, but they were letting me off with a warning. They come to the restaurant every 3 years or so. It's not very high risk, but it is a considerable risk.

Also of note is that a lot of the Schwarzarbeit is actually done by legal residents who collect unemployment. In that case the state has two reasons to crack down. I'm pretty sure you would be perfectly safe at a desk job, if you can get one. If your german is good, try translation. There's plenty of boring technical documentation out there that needs translation, or you could give lessons in something. Babysitting or dog walking, are other options.

I've just started working as a nanny. I thought I was doing things "legally" until the mother gave me cash for the work I had done.

How can I make this "illegal" work "legal" because I don't want to get in trouble.

ahahaha

being paid in cash doesn't necessarily mean you have been hired illegally. Do you have the visa etc sorted?

I'm from the UK. I've been living in Germany for 18 months. I have a 400Euro job in a supermarket and now this lil nanny job. I know I have to declare it, but how can I if she's not paying me "by the book".

Just take the money, and look the other way!
But if you really want to be 100% politically correct, get her to write out receipts for all that, off the books hard earned cash.

Think it was back in 1986 when they found a load of Brits up Dortmund way working on building sites.Cops picked them up and took them staright to the border.They were told if they entered Germany within the next 12 months they would be imprisoned

Quite simply, she MUST „pay you by the book“. She cannot refuse. In fact, by refusing she has already committed an offence by inciting you to commit a criminal act.

The risk you are running is far too high for the wage you are getting. The German tax authorities have been cracking-down increasingly on “Schwarzarbeit” for a long time now, and if caught you will have big (and I mean BIG) problems if you are resident here.

You will be told that there is little chance of being caught. Not true. Everybody who knows what you do is a potential risk, especially those who know your employer. You aren’t German; you stand out from the crowd.

Do you think that the woman would stand-up for you if everything went pear-shaped? I doubt it. And you run the risk of a fine, repayment of the unpaid tax plus all costs, and perhaps even: „Auf Wiedersehen Germany“.

No matter how many people who might say otherwise, it simply isn’t worth it. Go elsewhere, do everything above board and you will have nothing more to worry about.

HTH

I agree with the last post. It's usually better in the long run to "play the game". Keep everything above board and transparent and you are (usually) bullet-proof.

Also, remember that the tax system in run differently to the UK. It's very local. The people administering your tax affairs live in the same area as you - and word can get round quickly in relatively small German cities.

It's not like the UK where the policy is the opposite - Londoners' tax affairs dealt with in Wales or wherever to ensure the two parties are unlikely to ever come across each other.

Finally, remember that there *are* other jobs. No need for you to collude with someone who might want to commit a crime and for you to be dragged in. Once you cross the line, you uusally can't go back.

Thanks for the advice. I'm really going to have to say something to her. I'm worried that things might go completely pear-shaped. Luckily, my other job will soon be offering me more hours, so I'll have to pack in the "nanny" job anyway.

What makes me laugh the most is that the father is a highly paid business man, surely he knows how to do things "by the book".

The biggest problem now is, letting them down and saying that I don't want to do the job illegally.
Sheisse.

SquirrelKate - Some questions - What happens if you are sick? Do you have Insurance?
If you are a Brit. you should know that there is no NHS here.
If you are working in a private household and being paid cash with no mention
of Krankenversicherung then you are probably working illegally.
Are you registered with the local authority as living where you are?
That is a legal requirement in Germany (also for foreigners) (Anmeldungspflicht).
If your "family" is not keen on this then it is because they know you are working illegally.
After I was first here I got sick (whilst working legally as an IT contractor)
- only a simple bladder infection (rare for a male). I had to pay everything out of my own pocket.
(It was 100's of Euros because of all the tests they thought needed to be done)
If you are from the UK and have something chronic then you can always fly back to the NHS.
An emergency - say appendicitis, could cost you lots if you are not insured.
If you are working for a German family and they know you have no health insurance
then they are either unethical or stupid or both.
One way around this problem is to get insurance from a UK insurance Co. that covers emergency treatment
in D but not chronic sickness (where you would return home).
(I paid for such a policy after my first bad (expensive) experience).
Don't worry too much about German officialdom - they won't handcuff you and put you on the next plane
home if you are illegal. They are very civilised in my experience.

Thanks, Jeremy.

I'm living 100% legally in Germany. I've registered everywhere I need to, I have health insurance (paid by Arbeitsamt) and I work a 400Euro job too. (I was working full time before all this, but I had to get something else before my brain exploded from boredom... anywho).

I going to have to talk to the family tomorrow. I know I won't get "handcuffed" and what have you but it's still the fear of something going wrong.

If all fails, I'll just pack the nanny job in and just work at my 400Euro job instead... or find a higher paying full time job.

Hi, I have a question. If my company hire me (on the contract) as X (office bound) but they ask me to do Y (not office bound) on top of X everyday, am I doing Y illegally?? I mean I only get one pay for one employer. Or can I sue them for making do Y when I'm hired to do X?

It depends what it says in your contract. It's not uncommon for contracts to state the main type of employment, but then further down to have a clause effectively saying that the employer can tell you to do whatever he wants. There are limits, but only a court (or a lawyer) can tell you whether your particular contract exceeds those limits.

AS long as your are not overstepping certain limits (8Hrs a day, max 10 and then not for prolonged periods) then no.

Within reason, as long as they are paying you to do X they can get you to do Y instead, and as long as you are within your contract and legal working hours thats ok. They cant get you do Y additionally or even more X without paying you, unless you have a very strange contract, but 8 hourse of whatever os ok.

andy M

There are also some other limits, in particular regarding whether Y is union-/tariff-regulated, whether you're a temp or perm employee, and whether you have the official requirements for this. Also, in this case, there can be limits regarding workplace and "lending" to other sub-facilities, but that's mostly contract-based.

What if X is office administrator and Y is say, cleaner? Contract states only office administrator. Surely the job cannot expand outside office, can it? I guess I want to know the legality in this since I read that if one has a (fulltime) job, and want to do a freelance job, it's a separate contract. So, do I need a contract for job Y in the same company? How much schwarzarbeit is that in having a complete different nature of jobs (X and Y) and not stated in the contract? Who (which official/government body) should I ask really??

are you getting paid separately? is it a different work contract? are you working regularly more than 8 hours a day/6 days per week or more than whatever your contract says?

if it's all "no" and it's allowed according to your contract or you agreed to it, then I can't see what's wrong with it. The company can assign you to different tasks.